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Thread: Debate on the Northwest Imperative

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    Greg Johnson's Avatar
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    Default Debate on the Northwest Imperative

    Debate on the Northwest Imperative



    http://www.counter-currents.com/2011...st-imperative/
    http://whitenationalist.org/forum/sh...ted=1#post3626



    Greg Johnson
    790 words

    Edmund Connelly’s essay “Harold Covington’s Northwest Quartet” at The Occidental Observer generated intense discussion. We have decided to continue and refine that discussion with a moderated debate. The primary focus of the debate will be the idea of the Northwest Imperative. A secondary focus will be Harold Covington’s writings about the Northwest Imperative, including the novels of his Northwest Quartet.

    The basic rules of the debate are:
    1. No ad hominem attacks are permitted, not even cute little asides. This is a debate about ideas, not personalities. If a comment has substance, I will edit out personal attacks. If personal attacks are the substance, I will delete the comment and ban the commenter.

    2. Pen names are of course permitted, but multiple pen names (sock puppets) are not. If you start logging in under new names to agree with yourself, you will be exposed and banned. (I have no moral objections to sock puppets. But they contribute to an undisciplined, irresponsible, unserious atmosphere, and this is a serious debate.)

    3. All the other rules of etiquette, logic, and fair play also apply and will be enforced.

    4. All comments must be on topic. Off topic commentary will never see the light of day.

    5. Should inappropriate comments slip by, debate participants have the recognized right not to answer them, citing these basic terms of debate, in order to keep the discussion moving forward.
    You don’t need a familiarity with the Northwest Quartet to participate in this discussion, just good logic and good manners. However, by way of background, I am reprinting the following text from Harold Covington.

    Fundamental Principles of Northwest Migration


    H. A. Covington
    I. The White race in North America is in danger of literal, physical extinction. If current destructive demographic trends continue, White people will be a minority in the United States and Canada by the year 2050, and we will have vanished completely from North America by 2100. The real point of no return, however, is far closer. By the year 2020, the median AGE of the White population of North America will have become so high that we will no longer be capable of reproducing ourselves in sufficient numbers to overcome the tide of mud-colored Third World immigration.

    II. We as a people have wasted the past six decades on pointless, futile, and impotent right-wing and kosher conservative organizations and strategies. The overwhelming majority of these past organizations and movements refused to recognize the vital central importance of race in all issues, and they refused to recognize the urgent need for state power in order to preserve the existence of our race. The few attempts which have been made to resist racial extinction by groups and personalities of an openly National Socialist or racialist nature have been led by men who were stupid, incompetent, dishonest, or some combination of all three. The result of the past sixty years of right-wing failure and impotence is that we are now out of time.

    III. There is only one strategy remaining to us which may be able to secure the existence of our people and a future for White children. Our last remaining hope to stave off extinction is the establishment of a sovereign and independent nation on the continent of North America for White people only.

    IV. Considerations of demographics, economics, and a history of commitment and martyrdom in the persons of Bob Matthews, Sam and Vicky Weaver, and Richard Butler dictate that the territory for this sovereign Aryan republic must lie in the Pacific Northwest.

    V. The first step towards the establishment of the Northwest American Republic is a mass migration of the existing racially aware White community to the states of Idaho, Oregon, and Washington. It is a matter of the utmost urgency that you make this vitally important commitment to the future of our people, that you do so now, and that you come to the Homeland with only the minimum delay necessary to raise sufficient funds and put your affairs in order.
    I also recommend you look at three other pieces on this site:
    So with that, ladies and gentlemen, don your thinking caps. Be patient, however. Since all comments need to be moderated, your thoughts might not appear immediately. So why not take the extra time before you send your comment to proofread it and decide if you can improve upon it or if it should even be published at all?

    If this goes well, we might even make a slight dent in the internet’s madhouse, mosh pit atmosphere and show that online discussion can actually contribute to the development of serious ideas and political change.

    Last edited by PastorLindstedt; 04-13-2011 at 10:30 PM.

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    Default Okay, we?re off to the races.

    Okay, we’re off to the races.



    http://www.counter-currents.com/2011.../#comment-6436
    http://mamzers.org/forum2/showthread...ted=1#post3627

    Okay, we’re off to the races.

    I will be working on Radio Free Northwest today, but I will check in regularly and make the time to respond to the posts. This is actually something of a historic occasion, one of the few attempts on the part of the Movement (or whatever you want to call “this thing of ours”) to use the internet to its full potential to actually exchange serious ideas.


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    Default There Is No Positive Alternative To The Northwest Republic.

    There Is No Positive Alternative To The Northwest Republic.


    http://www.counter-currents.com/2011.../#comment-6437
    http://mamzers.org/forum2/showthread...ted=1#post3628


    Fourmyle of Ceres
    Posted April 11, 2011 at 2:59 pm | Permalink


    *climbs up ship rigging, tacks his colors to the mast…like….THIS*

    There Is No Positive Alternative To The Northwest Republic.

    That places a metathematic perspective on what is the last, best hope our Race has on this planet.

    I will simply begin by noting what I have said before.

    Rockwell’s Model envisioned using the extant political process to work for the representation of the White Race, and worked from the bottom, up. His goal was, in part, the formation of a political party that was devoted solely to representing the interests of the White Race. It starts in Virginia, and ends up in Washington, D.C.

    Covington’s Model, as I understand it, sees the extant political process as a testing ground for our developing the future Leaders who will create and sustain a Racial Homeland for the White Race. In contrast to Rockwell’s “bottom-up” model, Covington’s Northwest Republic Analytical Model works from the top, down, in providing the overarching goal that all of our activities must work purposefully to support. It starts where you are, and ends with our Posterity returning to walk Among The Stars.

    That’s good enough, for now!

    I’ll address Covington’s Basic Points above, directly.

    The colors I wish to nail to the mast here is that there is NO alternative to the Northwest Republic as a Homeland for the White Race.

    I have asked only one question from Covington’s critics:

    What is YOUR alternative, and how do you propose to make it happen?

    The one and only response so far has been to suggest we take over and control the cities, and then, somehow, take over and hold the country.

    This, from people who can’t “take over and hold” one street corner in South Central.

    The Northwest Republic ties together perfectly with the metapolitical project, as the temporal bridge for the metapolitical project, and a place where our Posterity – Children, and Grandchildren – can live where none may make afraid, and may make their Manifest their unique Racial Heritage, a Destiny worthy of Manifestation, indeed.

    Want to make the Fourteen Words a reality?

    Focus Northwest.

    To paraphrase General Robert E. Lee:

    “You can do no more, and your grandchildren deserve no less.”

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    Default My ?model? is that of the COLONIAL WAR

    My “model” is that of the COLONIAL WAR



    http://whitenationalist.org/forum/sh...=3629#post3629
    http://www.counter-currents.com/2011.../#comment-6445


    Sorry, I can’t figure out how to capture quotes directly on this site yet, so I’ll cut and paste:

    “Rockwell’s Model envisioned using the extant political process to work for the representation of the White Race, and worked from the bottom, up. His goal was, in part, the formation of a political party that was devoted solely to representing the interests of the White Race. It starts in Virginia, and ends up in Washington, D.C.”

    True. This was also in the 196os, where such a project was at still feasible, at least theoretically.

    “Covington’s Model, as I understand it, sees the extant political process as a testing ground for our developing the future Leaders who will create and sustain a Racial Homeland for the White Race. ”

    Mmmm….close enough.

    “In contrast to Rockwell’s “bottom-up” model, Covington’s Northwest Republic Analytical Model works from the top down, in providing the overarching goal that all of our activities must work purposefully to support. It starts where you are, and ends with our Posterity returning to walk Among The Stars.”

    That’s the plan.

    “The colors I wish to nail to the mast here is that there is NO alternative to the Northwest Republic as a Homeland for the White Race. I have asked only one question from Covington’s critics: What is YOUR alternative, and how do you propose to make it happen?

    “The one and only response so far has been to suggest we take over and control the cities, and then, somehow, take over and hold the country. This, from people who can’t “take over and hold” one street corner in South Central.

    The Northwest Republic ties together perfectly with the metapolitical project, as the temporal bridge for the metapolitical project, and a place where our Posterity – Children, and Grandchildren – can live where none may make afraid, and may make their Manifest their unique Racial Heritage, a Destiny worthy of Manifestation, indeed.

    Want to make the Fourteen Words a reality?

    Focus Northwest.

    To paraphrase General Robert E. Lee:

    “You can do no more, and your grandchildren deserve no less.”

    ********

    My “model” is that of the COLONIAL WAR, a template which has been used both successfully and unsuccessfully over the past century by revolutionaries of all races. The object is to compel a withdrawal from a specific piece of territory by making the continued retention of that territory by the occupying power financially, politically, and eventually militarily untenable. As I say in my novels: “In a colonial war, it is never the generals who surrender. It’s the accountants.”

    Such an insurgency undertaken against a United States at the top of its game, or even today, would be doomed to failure. No one disputes that, least of all me. But my (purely fictional, of course) NVA insurgency which I describe in the novels is not confronted with the United States government or the United States military at the top of its game.

    I am describing a United States that is both morally and financially bankrupt; a United States whose military is stretched as thin as a spaghetti strand by maintaining over 700 overseas bases and at least three brushfire wars and foreign occupations; a United States burdened with a collapsing economy, massive unemployment, massive foreclosures and home loss as the productive White middle class disappears and the tax base withers away accordingly, bloated and corrupt government so incompetent it cannot even rebuild a major American city after a natural disaster, and a growing population of surly and non-contributory illegal aliens from the Third World who drain the country’s resources like leeches.

    I am describing an America in decline that can only “win” wars for a while by massive aerial bombing, and yet is so afraid of losing pilots and the resulting bad PR that they use incredibly expensive drone missiles to blow up weddings and elementary schools by mistake, tactics which realistically would never be used against a domestic insurgency or, if used, would cause such massive PR blowback as to virtually guarantee the success of the rebellion.

    I am describing a United States so unsure of itself and its moral authority that even with its military stretched to the limit, it dare not conscript an army for fear the guns would be turned on itself, by any one of half a dozen dissatisfied racial and ethnic groups.

    I am describing an America where the President of the United States has to schedule his television addresses so as not to conflict with American Idol and Dancing with the Stars. I am describing a United States where the president quite literally cannot address a classroom full of eight-year-olds without a teleprompter, which must be hauled in and set up by his small army of flunkies and bodyguards.

    Needless to say, since the United States of America is the greatest country in the world and has achieved diverse and democratic (as well as Democratic) perfection by electing an African-American to the highest office in the land, it therefore follows that no such United States could ever exist in reality. So just read the novels and enjoy!


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    Default How About a New England Imperative?

    How About a New England Imperative?



    http://www.counter-currents.com/2011.../#comment-6440
    http://whitenationalist.org/forum/sh...=3632#post3632


    While the Northwest Imperative may be a worthy goal, so should a New England Imperative consisting of Vermont, New Hampshire, Northwestern Massachusetts and Maine be considered.

    The population of these areas is 96% European. There is a fine road network, rail, industry, FARMLAND, industry (Sig, Ruger, etc), a functioning NAVAL BASE and many self sufficient people. If we were able to get the Federal Leviathan off our back we could make quite a go of it.

    A Northeast Imperative might make sense for people with ties in the area who would find a move to the Pacific Northwest untenable for family or employment reasons. We are not competing with the Northwest Front, but complimenting it.



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    Default There Already is a Gliberal Whigger New England Imperative

    There Already is a Gliberal Whigger New England Imperative



    http://whitenationalist.org/forum/sh...=3633#post3633
    http://www.counter-currents.com/2011.../#comment-6446

    Diane:

    There are in fact two existing New England separatist movements already, one in Vermont and one in New Hampshire. The Vermont secession movement is run by a bunch of liberal, hippie-dippy Sixties retreads, mostly lefty academic types who get together in university lounges and pubs wearing tweed jackets with patches on the elbows and turtle-necked sweaters, where they bloviate about fighting the power and how they hate that awful man George Bush, so forth and so on. A lot of them are Jews, and after they got Obongo elected the whole thing seems to have dried up and blown away.

    The New Hampshire secessionists are libertarians, and they do indeed have a migration plan, but they are not overtly racial and that kind of defeats the purpose of the exercise. Why secede and take all the problems of America with you? The last I heard they’d gotten about 20 or 30 families to actually move. We’re doing a little better, but to be honest, not much.

    If anybody wants to set up a viable and serious New England separatist movement based on the 14 Words, more power to them! Just remember the famous words of A.K. Chesterton: “If they don’t name the Jew, their message isn’t true!”


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    Default So why write off the other 47 states?

    So why write off the other 47 states?



    http://www.counter-currents.com/2011.../#comment-6441
    http://whitenationalist.org/forum/sh...ted=1#post3636


    Lew:

    This comment/ question is for Mr. Covington.

    I am familiar with some of your arguments for establishing a White Republic/ethnostate in the Pacific northwest and for limiting that Republic to Washington, Oregon and Idaho. You have argued that the northwest has favorable demographics, natural resources, a deep water harbor and is far removed from the regime’s east coast power centers. You have argued that the distance from Washington DC to the northwest makes it likely the regime would surrender the northwest under the right conditions. You have also argued that limiting the Republic to just three states would make the problems associated with establishing a Republic more manageable.

    All that said, there are still well over a hundred million White people in this country.

    So why write off the other 47 states?

    I agree with you it’s far too late to reclaim the whole country, but writing off 47 states worth of territory seems excessive.


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    Default We have to work with what little we got

    We have to work with what little we got



    http://www.counter-currents.com/2011.../#comment-6458
    http://whitenationalist.org/forum/sh...=3637#post3637

    Lew:

    The question of why it is impossible to take back all of America from sea to shining sea is one I have dealt with repeatedly, but I don’t want to fall back on canned answers or referring people to web sites, so let’s just look at one angle: the urgent and increasingly painful necessity we face of doing a lot with a little. Very little.

    It is a matter of what we can realistically do with what we have to work with. Bear in mind, I am talking about actually DOING something about the crisis we face, and it’s been so long since that has been attempted that a lot of our people can’t really wrap their minds around the concept, because they are so used to decades of mediocrity, failure, and the constant generation of nothing but endless WORDS. Put simply, the problem has to be reduced to MANAGEABLE PROPORTIONS, geographically, demographically, and politically.

    Let’s face it: White Nationalists of all stripes are very thin on the ground, even on the internet. I have said that I believe our internet community numbers something on the order of 100,000 people, but that springs from a very broad and optimistic definition of what constitutes White Nationalism and includes everybody from Skinheads to Christian Identity to sovereign citizen types and militia, all the way to the more aware Tea Party and John Birch types. (Yes, the JBS is still around.)

    As far as hard-core racialists go, the number is of course significantly less. If I had to hazard an educated guess, I’d say about 25,000 “hard core” people on the internet and an unknown number, millions, who agree with us but who will simply never get the chance to hear our message because barring some seismic event that catapults us onto every cable network, they will never know we are here.

    Now, realistically, how many of those among our present audience will actually DO anything, even a perfectly legal act like moving to the Pacific Northwest?

    I state on Radio Free Northwest that we are looking for a cadre of 1,000 people to come here. I didn’t just pull that figure out of the air. I honestly think that number is all we can pragmatically hope for from the people our message is currently reaching.

    They will have to be the tinder that lights the fire here in the Homeland, the water that primes the pump, and we can’t spread them too thin on the ground. They have to be organized in cells or units or activity groups or whatever you want to call them, of between four and six serious adult revolutionaries each,so as to provide the essential support system they will need when they become active and the heat ratchets up.

    That first thousand bodies are proving murderously hard to find, and we are running out of time. It is essential that this cadre be concentrated in a workable area before serious on-the-ground political activism of any kind and directed toward any end can begin.

    Everywhere within the current projected Homeland area is within a day’s drive of everywhere else, and that is really the maximum spread I believe to be practical. We have all (or most of us) known what it is to try and hold events where a tiny number of people drive for days from all over east or west of the Mississippi to attend. Nowhere outside a few major cities, and now our two Primary Settlement Areas here, is there a concentration of even as many as a dozen adult, mature, dedicated, intelligent, and compos mentis White Nationalists. Those we have must be used to the best effect.

    For all I know, when The Balloon Goes Up we may in fact be able to glom onto more territory. Hope so. But the initial area of operation has to be of workable size and our targeted White community sufficiently small so that the paltry number of active people we will be able to muster will have an effect. 1,000 people, even good ones, are nothing in a 50-state area of 300 million people. In a three-and-a-half state area with only 14 million (give or take), they can make a difference.




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    Meercat #3's Avatar
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    Default The NorthWest is the Way to Go

    The NorthWest is the Way to Go



    http://whitenationalist.org/forum/sh...=3638#post3638
    http://www.counter-currents.com/2011.../#comment-6443


    Steve the Elder

    (1) True White Nationalists are a small minority within white society. Our “own” turn on us in a heart beat when we are “exposed”. Therefore we not only face our racial enemies, but the traitors and fools within our own race . We are horribly outnumbered

    (2) Tactical Regrouping is a sound military tactic when very outnumbered and yet an avenue to successfully regroup exists. At some point there will be insufficient numbers of us to regroup, and no majority white place to regroup TO. That will be the end

    (3) Many serious WNists are already on the ground up here, even if not technically “with” the NWF. At some point they will weigh in at some level because it will be their last tango, put up or shut up

    (4) Three ocean ports and many natural resources including the possibility to later add Alaska with it’s massive hidden oil reserves, and it is not incomprehensible that BC could be taken later, depending on subsequent events

    (5) As Atzlan rises to the South of the proposed Homeland, they will be a buffer against ZOG. Even if they join in attack they are minimal enemies as far as quality, and their incompetence as allies will be an albatross to ZOG

    (6) The PNW is as well armed or better armed with small arms in civilian hands than any other part of the former USA. Many white vets see how nice it is and retire here and my experience is many of them have become defacto WNists by being forced in proximity to muds in the service. We have a mothballed fleet of Navy vessels up here as well, which vets could recommission into our service

    (7) The terrain in the West and some in the Northern and Eastern portions of the proposed Homeland are rugged and heavily covered in vegetation, which makes excellent cover, along with the misty and rainy weather in the West which plays havoc with surveillance and ZOG’s tech toys

    (8) The detractors of this plan have nothing approaching this concept as an alternative. I dare all detractors to tell us in detail what your plan for our racial survival is, and why it could succeed? If not, you are merely kibbutzing and have nothing positive to offer us for our survival


    ===========

    Tell Me What To Do, O, Fearless/Dickless/Mindless Leader!!!!
    I Need A Zero!!!!!!



  10. #10
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    Default Perhaps it is too early to go Home

    Perhaps it is too early to go Home



    http://whitenationalist.org/forum/sh...ted=1#post3639
    http://www.counter-currents.com/2011.../#comment-6444


    Nash27

    I fully support the establishment of the white ethnostate, and believe it does truly represent our one best chance not only for racial survival, but for racial greatness, once again.

    However, I will enter an objection. Perhaps it is too early to go Home.

    The United States has entered steepening decline. Economically, she endures the worst years since the Depression. Commodity prices have risen and are rising – with food being the final chance to gouge from the populace what profits the moneymen can before the end. White families are broken throughout the nation, and the heads of those white families – white men – having no reason to play by the rules anymore, are ‘checking out’ in larger and larger numbers…thus one sees increasing signs of everyday competence as increasingly rare. States are going bankrupt, home foreclosures still stubbornly high.

    Geopolitically, the Middle East is now on fire. Other white nations are beginning to challenge the dominance of the United States; such as Russia and Germany.

    Antisemitism is on the rise, especially in the most Jew-friendly of countries – America. And this socalled antisemitism is being ignored by the elites…or even originating from them. We now have a mulatto as President, and this event has, more than any other in the last 50 years, racialized whites and made them at least tacitly aware of their own pending dispossession.

    In short – revolution is in the air. For many of us not young, who have families not willing to leave and so to care for in these perilous times, the cost of pulling up all stakes and moving now are too great. Communities will be left behind, children (if divorced, which so many of us are) and parents abandoned. Since it is clear we are living in historic times, perhaps it is wiser to sit still for a bit longer, better preparing for the move…which I agree, must happen sooner or later.


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    Itz Fun Being A Witless Meercat!!!


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