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Thread: Debate on the Northwest Imperative

  1. #11
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    Default Can you give me a timetable?

    Can you give me a timetable?



    http://www.counter-currents.com/2011.../#comment-6449
    http://whitenationalist.org/forum/sh...=3640#post3640

    Chris Monte

    I would be interested in Mr. Covington’s timetable on all of this.

    Since, in his novels, the shooting finally started when a fictionalized U.S. government agency attempted to forcably take some white children from their parents, and Mr. Covington seems to be modeling the Northwest Imperative after the events in his books, what then are white people supposed to do after they make the move? Just sit and suffer through the same multiracial pathologies that afflict us in our real homelands (the places where we were born, where we have real roots, a lifetime that formed us, a legitimate ancestral claim. Places where our ancestors sacrificed for our posterity. Some might even call it ‘martyrdom’..), although this time far away from familiar surroundings and a without a genuine connection to the ground beneath us? [. . .]

    I ask this because there seems to be no real course of action beyond “relocate here”. Relocate and then what? Pass out leaflets? Hang that flag from an overpass, so some kids can spraypaint a dick on it? What and when, is going to be the “decisive” moment, where the physical presence of white migrants becomes crucial? [. . .]



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    Default I can give a series of benchmarks

    I can give a series of benchmarks



    http://whitenationalist.org/forum/sh...=3641#post3641
    http://www.counter-currents.com/2011.../#comment-6588


    On Chris Monti?s request for a timetable, I can give one, but not the kind some people might wish. Lacking a crystal ball, I obviously cannot say that the revolution will begin in 2017 and the Republic will be established in 2022 or anything of the kind. This is one of the reasons why I avoided specific dates in the novels.

    I can, however, give a series of benchmarks as to the ?when??not by a certain arbitrary date, but when certain events occur. One appeared briefly on the horizon last week?for a short moment it appeared as if the government would ?shut down? (which is a misnomer; it would in fact have done nothing of the sort) and certain government functionaries would not have been paid, including allegedly the military.

    Last week was a dog and pony show, and meaningless, but one of the benchmarks is when a GENUINE government shutdown comes because the government just plain RUNS OUT OF MONEY, or else they fire up the Federal Reserve?s presses to the point where U.S. currency is worthless, and they can NO LONGER PAY THEIR MERCENARIES, including the military, the FBI, and the alphabet soup of secret police agencies.

    I?m glad that moment when La Cesspool Grande runs out of money did not really appear last week, because we are nowhere near ready, and we have to be when the window of opportunity appears.




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    Default The Four Phase Plan

    The Four Phase Plan



    http://www.counter-currents.com/2011.../#comment-6463
    http://whitenationalists.org/forum/s...ted=1#post3642


    Chris:

    There is a plan, actually. It is detailed in our Party manual, the White Book, which needs updating along these very lines now that we are in fact starting to get a few boots on the ground up here. I intend to get to work on that and get a properly printed version done available for public distribution sometime this year, as opposed to the hand-bound and photocopied private versions we have now.

    Okay, I’m going to violate my own rule here and do a little cutting and pasting regarding the four-phase plan, just the headers and not the extensive commentary on each phase from the White Book:

    The Four Phase Plan

    The Butler Plan consists of four broad aspects or phases involving the creation, the buildup, and the operation of the Northwest Front. These phases are not nailed to any given time frame so much as they entail a specific kind of activity and an agenda of goals or benchmarks to be achieved. All four phases will be simultaneously ongoing in the various Party units around the Homeland, and at any given time the NF will be involved with issues relating to any or all of these phases. There will be a lot of overlap.

    Phase One: Relocation of the better elements of the existing racially conscious White community to the Homeland.

    Phase Two: The formation of the Northwest Front as a fighting revolutionary Party. This Party must engage in massive, serious propaganda and missionary work among native Northwesterners and organic migrants.

    Phase Three: The insertion of the Party into actual politics, and the creation of a bona fide political movement for Northwest independence.

    Phase Four: The seizure of state power through the creation of the Northwest American Republic in the power vacuum created by the collapse of the United States.

    The overall answer is that while a new migrant’s first task is to get settled in, get employed, and start sinking roots in the community–just as the first settlers of the thirteen colonies had to build their log cabins and put turkey and corn bread on the table before they thought about rebelling against King George, a process that took 168 years–no, once they’re settled in and a local support system has been built, they won’t be just sitting there twiddling their thumbs waiting for The Balloon To Go Up.




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    Default Can't We Glom Onto Alaska?

    Can't We Glom Onto Alaska?



    http://www.counter-currents.com/2011.../#comment-6455
    http://whitenationalist.org/forum/sh...=3648#post3648


    Jimmy Marr:

    I’m favorably biased toward a Northwest Republic because I live in Oregon, but I just spent a little time on Google Maps getting a global overview of the situation, and a question jumped out at me: Why not make the leap?

    Alaska is geographically isolated from the United States. It has a very short history of being part of the U.S. It’s very close to Russia, which seems to to be in a stronger geopolitical situation than the U.S. and is more likely to be favorably disposed to white nationalism than any nation I can think of.

    The climate and terrain are cold and rough, but that would be an evolutionary advantage for people who evolved in Northern Europe. Conversely, that’s probably why old N.Y. Jews go to Florida to die. And sure enough, if you look at a map of North America you will see that Alaska is the continental antipode of the Jew haven, but MUCH larger. In fact, it seems to be over twice as large as Oregon, Idaho, Washington and Montana combined.

    How about that?


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    Meercat #3 is offline A Meercat, Not A Possum Veteran Member Meercat #3 is on a distinguished road
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    Default ZOG won't let us take Alaska

    ZOG won't let us take Alaska


    http://whitenationalist.org/forum/sh...=3649#post3649
    http://www.counter-currents.com/2011.../#comment-6498


    Steve the Elder

    Jimmy,

    Food production for Alaska is a huge problem. Now oil could be traded for food -? but it could be blockaded. Alaska is a prize that ZOG will not easily relinquish as it has at least a 500 year supply of oil for North America, and more if you believe in abiotic oil vs the fossil fuels propaganda. Google Lindsey Williams at youtube. IMO Alaska would be a secondary target after a NWR was formed, consolidated and ZOG weakens further. I also believe that possession of British Colombia would be nearly essential in this endeavor so that an ocean blockade could not stop the flow of oil


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    Default We need to coontemplate We'z anuses some more

    We need to coontemplate We'z anuses some more


    http://whitenationalisr.org/forum/sh...=3665#post3665
    http://www.counter-currents.com/2011.../#comment-6457



    Ex Pro White Activist

    Mr. Covington,

    First I want to address your principal points one by one. Afterward we can dive into the meat of what really constitutes ?white community?, ?white independence? and ?white self-determination?.

    My strongest objection is you are ? and very intentionally ? confusing regained white self-determination and degrees of independence with the limited Northwest Republic & Migration scheme in the white public mind. Therefore to shoot down all concepts of self-determination in any form it is only necessary to target the NW Plan sitting duck.

    This TOQ article is the most recent example of what happens when the Butler Plan becomes the poster child for White Independence:

    http://www.toqonline.com/blog/secession-is-a-bad-idea/

    Mr. Baird Peterson adduced a host of cogent reasons arguing against the NW Scheme. But in his mind and his readers? minds these objections extend to all forms of secession and enhanced independence. We are merely left with TOQ?s racially tinged Republican Conservatism.

    In these circumstances I think it is incumbent upon you to either answer Mr. Peterson?s objections or admit that the NW plan is not the only possibility.

    I. The White race in North America is in danger of literal, physical extinction.?

    Agreed. Stop. What are the causes of this? Until we conduct a detailed examination of the causes of this it is impossible to consider possible cures.

    Nevertheless, precisely how does the Butler-Matthews-Covington plan address this? Part of The NW Plan in its present form includes a subdued call for a renewed Order/IRA style insurgency campaign to establish some form of political independence.

    For three decades there has been a background thought in the non-movement. This is the idea that if The Order had had 10 times as many members and cells as it did, and had these operators used better tradecraft and fieldcraft, then they could have succeeded in sparking a revolutionary guerrilla insurgency. The seductive part is that this conclusion might well be true. But only for the circumstances of 1983. And unfortunately we don?t have a Doc Brown style DeLorean time machine we can use to alter events.

    In my professional opinion the march of time and technology has doomed such an illegal scheme to early practical defeat. But even if it could succeed the tactics you have outlined guarantee it will be a very protracted war. This is the nature of low intensity conflict. I think it?s a certainty that white birthrates in the theater of operations would further decline during this period (7 years. 10 years? 20 years?) of low intensity warfare.

    ?II. We as a people ? refused to recognize the urgent need for state power in order to preserve the existence of our race."

    We are discussing independent sovereignty here. Many racial subgroups have existed for centuries to millenia without having it. The Kurds, Chechens, southern European Slavs and Czechs all come to mind.

    But lets dive in. In the nuclear industrial era real independent sovereignty has two mandatory prerequisites:

    1. The secure possession of a nuclear strike force that can survive a first strike in sufficient condition to inflict unacceptable damage on the enemy in a counterstrike. This means more than one warhead and even more than 20 warheads.

    2. 100% fuels and energy independence.

    How does the NW Front intend to satisfy these conditions?

    III. There is only one strategy remaining to us

    Only one? This is an extraordinary claim. In engineering and the sciences such claims have the burden of producing extraordinary proof. Would you please produce it?

    IV. Considerations of demographics, economics

    These need far more specificity. For my part I say the demographics are completely wrong. The whites in Oregon and Washington are the original Deep Blue state SWPL folks for the most part. And the ?economics? are virtually non-existent.

    and a history of commitment and martyrdom in the persons of Bob Matthews, Sam and Vicky Weaver, and Richard Butler dictate that the territory for this sovereign Aryan republic must lie in the Pacific Northwest.

    This is a rhetorical appeal to emotion.

    These people may deserve the dedication of memorial roads, bridges, government buildings, parks and holidays after Victory. At the present time these names only call for brutally candid after action reviews to ensure the demonstrated mistakes are never repeated. They do not provide a single reason to copy what demonstrably can be disastrous tactics.

    V. The first step towards the establishment of the Northwest American Republic

    Our real history has been so buried by the Jew?s agit-prop that it?s apparently now forgotten that the earliest English settlements in Virginia and Massachusetts experienced high rates of starvation and death. This was entirely due to the poor preparation of the colonists to establish real self-sufficiency. The first step is for would-be independent whites to learn materially useful vocational skills as individuals.

    XPWA

    Last edited by Librarian; 04-24-2011 at 03:27 PM.

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    Default We'z going to Mars via jewranus

    We'z going to Mars via jewranus



    http://whitenationalist.org/forum/sh...ted=1#post3669
    http://www.counter-currents.com/2011.../#comment-6465


    Fourmyle of Ceres

    In reply to XPWA:

    You wrote:
    Mr. Covington,

    First I want to address your principal points one by one. Afterward we can dive into the meat of what really constitutes ?white community?, ?white independence? and ?white self-determination?.

    My strongest objection is you are ? and very intentionally ? confusing regained white self-determination and degrees of independence with the limited Northwest Republic & Migration scheme in the white public mind. Therefore to shoot down all concepts of self-determination in any form it is only necessary to target the NW Plan sitting duck.
    In reply:
    There?s no ?confusion? about what Mr. Covington has done.

    ?White self-determination and independence? are not conflated solely with the Northwest Republic.

    Rather, the Northwest Republic is a symbolic shorthand for the best possible tool to deal with what ends ?white self-determination and independence? would best, indeed necessarily, support.

    You can be as strong a supporter of ?white self-determination and independence? on any street corner in South Central, or Compton, and it will bear bitter fruit.

    Why?

    Because social growth requires a social order; white social growth requires a white social order, and ONLY the Northwest Republic is formed explicitly, from its inception, to serve the best interests of the White Race, and ONLY the best interests of the White Race.

    You wrote:
    This TOQ article is the most recent example of what happens when the Butler Plan becomes the poster child for White Independence:

    http://www.toqonline.com/blog/secession-is-a-bad-idea/

    Mr. Baird Peterson adduced a host of cogent reasons arguing against the NW Scheme. But in his mind and his readers? minds these objections extend to all forms of secession and enhanced independence. We are merely left with TOQ?s racially tinged Republican Conservatism.

    In these circumstances I think it is incumbent upon you to either answer Mr. Peterson?s objections or admit that the NW plan is not the only possibility.
    In reply:
    Under Dr. Johnson?s astute administration, we do not do board wars here.

    Baird can come over here on his own, and speak for himself.

    You wrote:
    I. The White race in North America is in danger of literal, physical extinction.?

    Agreed. Stop. What are the causes of this? Until we conduct a detailed examination of the causes of this it is impossible to consider possible cures.
    In reply:
    Asked and answered, particularly in reference to Immigration Reform Act of 1965, the open support of the Reconquista by the State, and the cultural warfare that aided and abetted the demoralization of the White Race.

    You wrote:
    Nevertheless, precisely how does the Butler-Matthews-Covington plan address this? Part of The NW Plan in its present form includes a subdued call for a renewed Order/IRA style insurgency campaign to establish some form of political independence.
    In reply:
    You just shifted topics midway through that paragraph.

    To answer the relevant question of the preceding paragraph, the Northwest Republic will not have illegal immigration, the inverted immigration act of 1965 will not have force, and the cultural war that led to the demoralization of our young, family-creating families will not have grounds to stand on, as they will be counter programmed, and parents will be able to afford to have families.

    The hidden costs that work against family formation, such as DINK?s ? double income no kids ? buying up the most desirable housing closest to the ?good? schools ? will be removed.

    You wrote:
    For three decades there has been a background thought in the non-movement. This is the idea that if The Order had 10 times as many members and cells as it did, and had these operators used better tradecraft and fieldcraft, then they could have succeeded in sparking a revolutionary guerrilla insurgency. The seductive part is that this conclusion might well be true. But only for the circumstances of 1983. And unfortunately we don?t have a Doc Brown style DeLorean time machine we can use to alter events.
    In reply:
    The only person who thought The Order might be able to spark a guerilla style insurgency was the ONLY person who thought The Order might be able to spark a guerilla style insurgency.

    Per Dr. Johnson?s ground rules, I won?t mention names.

    Per common sense, I shouldn?t have to.

    You wrote:
    In my professional opinion the march of time and technology has doomed such an illegal scheme to early practical defeat. But even if it could succeed the tactics you have outlined guarantee it will be a very protracted war. This is the nature of low intensity conflict. I think it?s a certainty that white birthrates in the theater of operations would further decline during this period (7 years. 10 years? 20 years?) of low intensity warfare.
    In reply:
    Again, as Mr. Covington has observed, the threat or use of force in his novel s, his works of fiction, are just that ? fiction, and any resemblance to any living person is purely coincidental.

    Note that such use of force as is mentioned in Mr. Covington?s use of fiction is defensive in nature; never do the NW people initiate the use of force.

    Note further that low-intensity conflict is the most effective form of conflict, over time, as the Cultural War has demonstrated. Control the words, control the pictures, and you control the Mind.

    Make a safe place where none may make afraid, and women will welcome the opportunity to be mothers.

    You wrote:
    ?II. We as a people ? refused to recognize the urgent need for state power in order to preserve the existence of our race.

    We are discussing independent sovereignty here. Many racial subgroups have existed for centuries to millenia without having it. The Kurds, Chechens, southern European Slavs and Czechs all come to mind.

    In reply:
    ?Survive,? yes, but flourish, Do Better, build Civilization, reach for the Stars?

    No.

    We can, and must, Do Better, MUCH DAMN BETTER.

    You wrote:
    But lets dive in. In the nuclear industrial era real independent sovereignty has two mandatory prerequisites:

    1. The secure possession of a nuclear strike force that can survive a first strike in sufficient condition to inflict unacceptable damage on the enemy in a counterstrike. This means more than one warhead and even more than 20 warheads.

    2. 100% fuels and energy independence.

    How does the NW Front intend to satisfy these conditions?
    In reply:
    Concerning weapons, there are sources of military power, exclusive of atomic weapons, that are much more effective, and much cheaper. The most casual review of military blogs/national security blogs might be useful in putting together a working hypothesis.

    There are enough damn fools thinking in just such terms tonight, even as we speak.

    I will not discuss such matters.

    Neither should you.

    Concerning energy, in addition to geothermal and solar, the Northwest offers the most efficient energy source of all, clean hydro, and particularly, clean microhydro.

    Note that there are all manner of dams throughout the Northwest Republic, of all sizes, and very few of them are set up for hydroelectric production. Simple conversion of them, particularly those near the end of their construction life, is a matter of simple engineering. There is a LOT of cheap, clean energy to be had this way. the useful life of the new dams (and roads, by the way) would be enhanced by decades by the use of SuperCrete; concrete mixed with fly ash, a waste product of industrial incinerators. This would add about 5% to the cost of construction, and would extend the lifetime of the finished projects by decades, lowering capital costs and replacement costs dramatically.

    Triple bottom line thinking, and triple plus good!

    And, in time, Hyperion reactors could generate heat and power for small communities. Being modular, and inherently safe, they are ideal, as are Toshiba 4S reactors. Additionally, Thorium has already been demonstrated as a feasible reactor power source by Rickover more than half a century ago.

    All of this is after adopting the superinsulation standards for residential and commercial construction.

    Monolithic domes would also work very well.

    You wrote:
    III. There is only one strategy remaining to us
    Only one? This is an extraordinary claim. In engineering and the sciences such claims have the burden of producing extraordinary proof. Would you please produce it?
    In reply:
    We are still looking for anything better.

    If you find it, do let us know.

    You can start using it in South Central, and expand to Compton.

    Call us when you make it to Los Angeles, new capital of Alta California, home of the Reconquista.

    You wrote:
    IV. Considerations of demographics, economics
    These need far more specificity. For my part I say the demographics are completely wrong. The whites in Oregon and Washington are the original Deep Blue state SWPL folks for the most part. And the ?economics? are virtually non-existent.
    In reply:
    I suspect that, for some people, there will never be enough ?specificity.?

    Fine.

    The Deep Blue people will change fairly quickly, as the world that made Deep Blue possible implodes, causing not Deep Red, but Deep RIGHT, to come forward.

    Families change everything.

    As for economic feasibility, the ?economics? are there, particularly from a resource based perspective.

    See the energy example I gave above, and note that a modern economy requires cheap energy, and a lot of it.

    The Northwest has it, and it scales very well, too!

    You wrote:
    and a history of commitment and martyrdom in the persons of Bob Matthews, Sam and Vicky Weaver, and Richard Butler dictate that the territory for this sovereign Aryan republic must lie in the Pacific Northwest.
    This is a rhetorical appeal to emotion.

    These people may deserve the dedication of memorial roads, bridges, government buildings, parks and holidays after Victory. At the present time these names only call for brutally candid after action reviews to ensure the demonstrated mistakes are never repeated. They do not provide a single reason to copy what demonstrably can be disastrous tactics.
    In reply:
    Point well taken, and they do require us to look at the first issue to be discussed in the after-action review ? we will even use 5 part paragraphs if you like.

    What they all had in common is that they all took for granted the Government would play by their understanding of The Rules.

    The loss of Robert Mathews is particularly tragic, and it is our duty for it to be particularly educational.

    Again, the example of VNN/F?s ?Hugh,? in the ?A World View? thread, is illuminating.

    On the other hand, those who look to the South look to a past that never really was, and a track record of bitter failure, all the more so now that the boundary of the Treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo have now been Reconquered.

    Focus Northwest ? focus on a better, brighter Future!

    More on Mathews before this thread is finished.

    You wrote:
    V. The first step towards the establishment of the Northwest American Republic

    Our real history has been so buried by the Jew?s agit-prop that it?s apparently now forgotten that the earliest English settlements in Virginia and Massachusetts experienced high rates of starvation and death. This was entirely due to the poor preparation of the colonists to establish real self-sufficiency. The first step is for would-be independent whites to learn materially useful vocational skills as individuals.

    In reply:
    See the thread by VNN/F?s ?Hugh,? A Better World.?

    The foundation of the Northwest Republic will be the development of a critical mass of Better People, who started where they were, and made something of themselves.

    It was only after enough of these people got together and Did Something, that the Longview Conference took place.

    The Mars Colony took a bit longer.


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  9. #19
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    Default Northwest Debate with Cunthair WallAss

    Northwest Debate with Cunthair WallASS



    http://whitenationalist.org/forum/sh...=3674#post3674
    http://www.occidentaldissent.com/201...thwest-debate/




    Lardball with Hunter Wallace


    Northwest Republic

    Some commentators over at Counter-Currents have been taking potshots at Harold Covington in the Northwest Migration debate.

    Unsurprisingly, Greg Johnson has been censoring the comments for nothing but softballs can be thrown at Herr Covington.

    How about we play a round of hardball? The discussion over there has gotten a little boring. I want to see a real game.

    (1) Demographically, the Pacific Northwest is not the lily White paradise that Harold Covington has made it out to be – Here are the latest numbers from the 2010 Census:

    Washington: 74.6 percent White.

    Oregon: 79.6 percent White.

    Idaho: 84.5 percent White.

    For the record, the whitest states in America are: #1. Maine, #2. Vermont, #3. West Virginia, #4. New Hampshire, #5. Iowa, #6. North Dakota, #7. Montana, #8. Kentucky, #9. Wyoming, and #10. Idaho.

    … #11. South Dakota, #12. Minnesota, #13. Wisconsin, #14. Nebraska, #15. Indiana.

    In Canada, Nova Scotia is 92 percent White, Newfoundland and Labrador are 97 percent White, New Brunswick is 97 percent White, Prince Edward Island is 98 percent White, and Quebec is 95 percent White.

    By comparison, Arkansas is 75.1 percent White, Kentucky is 87.2 percent White, Missouri is 81.8 percent White, Tennessee is 76.5 percent White, Indiana is 82.7 percent White, Minnesota is 84.8 percent White, and Wisconsin is 84.6 percent White.

    The Pacific Northwest isn’t anymore White than the typical Northern state. Washington and Oregon are less White than Missouri and Iowa.

    (2) Ideologically, Washington and Oregon are Blue States dominated by the SWPL population that lives in the Ecotopia sub-nation that stretches along the Pacific Coast. - “The Pacific Northwest” is bisected into two distinct sub-regions by the Cascade Mountains: Ecotopia and Empty Corridor.

    Portland and Seattle have far more in common with San Francisco and Vancouver than the region east of the Cascades. Boise and Couer d’Alene are more like Cheyenne and Helena than the Left Coast.

    In terms of racial demographics, Washington (74.6 percent) and Oregon (79.1 percent) are about the same as Tennessee (76.5 percent) and Arkansas (75.1 percent), but with the crucial difference that the Whites who live there are more “liberal” and “moderate.”

    Tennessee: 43.6 percent (conservative), 35.6 percent (moderate), 15.9 percent (liberal)

    Arkansas: 45.0 percent (conservative), 36.4 percent (moderate), 14.7 percent (liberal).

    Washington: 33.1 percent (conservative), 37.3 percent (moderate), 25.9 percent (liberal).

    Oregon: 34.5 (conservative), 35.3 percent (moderate), 26.3 percent (liberal).

    “The Pacific Northwest” concept looks especially silly when you throw Idaho into the mix.

    Idaho: 48.5 percent (conservative), 34.5 percent (moderate), and 14.9 percent (liberal).

    Idaho is the second most conservative state in America. It is wedged between Mississippi and Alabama. The state is far more like Wyoming and Montana than Western Oregon and Washington.

    It is Empty Corridor.

    (3) White Nationalists don’t have the numbers to compete with SWPLs in the Pacific Northwest – This is so obvious that it surprising the debate even continues past this point.

    If every White Nationalist and sympathizer in the entire United States (250,000 being a generous estimate) moved to the I-5 corridor tomorrow, they would still be dwarfed by the number of SWPLs and non-Whites who live in the Seattle metropolitan area alone (est. 3,344,813).

    In the last three years, 90,000 illegal aliens have moved to Washington and Oregon. Harold Covington’s worldwide audience isn’t anywhere close to that figure.

    Tellingly, he refuses to release his settlement numbers. White Nationalists are a drop in this sea of White liberalism.

    (4) The Northwest Imperative isn’t a new idea – Harold proudly calls the Northwest Imperative the Butler Plan.

    What he doesn’t say is that Pastor Richard Butler, now deceased, and the Aryan Nations have been active in the Pacific Northwest since the early 1970s. When Butler died, the Aryan Nations had lost its headquarters in a SPLC lawsuit and had a worldwide membership of less than 300 people.

    So, in other words, Richard Butler tried for 40 years to get White Nationalists to move to the Pacific Northwest, and for whatever reason they refused to respond to his call, unlike the 90,000 illegal aliens and the millions of SWPLs who have moved there in recent years, altering its political demography in a negative way.

    (5) The Pacific Northwest isn’t any different from any other part of the country – Case in point, the SPLC lawsuit that bankrupted the Aryan Nations and resulted in the loss of their headquarters.

    There is effectively no difference between hiding out in a bunker in Idaho and hiding out in grandma’s basement in Pennsylvania or Florida. The federal government has just as much power there as it does anywhere else.

    (6) The Pacific Northwest has been sanctified by the blood of martyrs – Every single one of these episodes discredits Harold’s plan of resorting to violence.

    - The White population of the Pacific Northwest didn’t shed any tears over The Order.

    - The Order was sold out by the likes of Glenn Miller.

    - The Order members have bitterly complained about being forgotten by the White Nationalist movement after they went to prison.

    - The FBI adapted and changed its tactics following Ruby Ridge and Waco.

    - Richard Butler was unable to form a successful White Nationalist colony in the region.

    - No one but White Nationalists care about the Edgar Steele trial.

    - Groups like the Montana Freemen were snuffed out by the FBI and ATF.

    Let’s not forget: Joe Snuffy’s little backpack bomb in Spokane was hardly a rallying cry for the oppressed Whites of the Pacific Northwest. Quite the opposite.

    If that bomb had detonated in the MLK parade, it would have ignited a huge backlash against White Nationalists living in the region, and Obama would have milked it like Clinton did with the Oklahoma City bombing.

    It is a great example of the difference between fiction and non-fiction: in reality, law enforcement agencies like the FBI are not clumsy and inept, but are quite efficient at sending fools like Joe Snuffy to prison.

    (7) The whole idea of a guerrilla war against the U.S. federal government is a fantasy – Let’s see Harold put on a uniform and lead the charge himself. He doesn’t even really believe his own bullshit. That is why he always includes disclaimers (i.e., this is fiction only) in his podcasts.

    The U.S. military has decades of experience in fighting and beating insurgencies like the Iraq insurgency. There are now less than 100 al-Qaeda fighters in Afghanistan.

    Think about it: the U.S. military defeated an insurgency in Iraq in the heart of the Islamic world. Do you think the U.S. military can’t defeat Harold Covington, Craig Cobb, and Joe Snuffy in Washington State?

    How much easier would it be for the U.S. military to operate within the United States instead of projecting overwhelming force on the other side of the planet?

    (8) The collapse will take care of all our problems – White Nationalists have been saying that since George Lincoln Rockwell predicted the collapse would come in 1969 and that he would be elected president in 1972. Every year the long awaited “collapse of the system” never comes.

    The Roman Empire collapsed in 1453 AD.

    (9) White Nationalists are too heterogeneous to accomplish anything – George Lincoln Rockwell, for example, was assassinated by one of his own followers.

    Adolf Hitler was a National Socialist, but he sold his product as a German nationalist to millions of other Germans who hated democracy and the terms of the Versailles Treaty, and they only turned to him as a last resort in light of the alternative.

    Harold Covington only believes that 1,000 or so White Nationalists can plant themselves in the middle of the I-5 corridor and, surrounded by millions of SWPLs in Portland and Seattle, can create an entire nation from scratch, defeat the U.S. military on its own soil, and convert the liberal and moderate population of the Pacific Northwest to National Socialism through, I guess, talking about the martyrdom of Edgar Steele on Radio Free Northwest.

    (10) Harold doesn’t have a communication strategy – What do you do about the locals? Don’t worry.

    Harold has a “massive outreach strategy” (which is what?) up his sleeve. Evangelizing the public can wait until after you have made the transformative life decision to uproot yourself and move there.

    It is easy to denounce conservatives for their various failings. Thinking realistically though, you have to have some type of strategy for winning over 1/3 of the people who live in Washington and Oregon, and 1/2 of the people who live in Idaho.

    Do you suppose ridicule will work? Setting off bombs? If so, where is the evidence that Neo-Nazi terrorists setting off bombs works? Is that what we saw in Spokane?

    Hell, what did setting off bombs even accomplish in Ireland?

    (11) Pointing to Empty Corridor isn’t much of an argument – Granted, the area east of the Cascades is conservative, but that is because of the population density of the region. Eastern Washington and Oregon are politically dominated by the Left Coast.

    If you are going to uproot yourself and move to the Northwest, why wouldn’t you move to somewhere like Wyoming or Idaho?

    I’ve already pointed out that those states (Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, North and South Dakota) are more conservative, more White, have favorable tax rates and land prices, and that settlers would have more of an impact there because of the smaller population.

    (12) We need a metapolitical revolution – Some White Nationalists have a naive faith in the power of ideas.

    Isn’t it amusing how the people who subscribe to those ideas seem to spend the majority of their time (a.) fighting with each other, (b.) navel-gazing over obscure intellectuals, and (c.) posting essays and comments in circle jerks on the internet?

    The “power of ideas” can be seen in the Northwest Imperative debate: the vast majority of the anonymous people who listen to Harold Covington and agree with his ideas are just entertaining themselves for the lulz.

    They have no intention of actually moving to the Pacific Northwest. How is that any different from watching American Idol on television? It is just another way to pass the time.

    These intellectuals always approach every problem in an abstract way: for example, we need a “White ethnostate,” which is a generic model that doesn’t refer to any specific place; we need to build a “community,” which doesn’t refer to any specific community, only to an abstract ideal of one; we need a “homeland,” which is also a concept, not a place; we need a “myth,” which doesn’t refer to anything substantial.

    No one but intellectuals appreciate these elaborate ideological sand castles. White people are not going to unite on the basis of a proposition nation.

    The neocons and libertarians are also wrong on that score.

    (13) We can use bombs to drive out the White liberals – Joe Snuffy of VNN Forum was dumb enough to take that idea seriously. Rachel Maddow used the Spokane bomb as fodder to polarize Whites against White Nationalists.

    (14) After moving to the Pacific Northwest, White Nationalists can tutor the natives in White racial consciousness – Does the Pacific Northwest have some kind of secret sauce?

    Are the people who live there unfamiliar with the Aryan Nations? Why would the same tactics which have failed elsewhere succeed there?

    (15) A skeleton in the costume of a fantasy world – That’s Harold Covington’s contribution to White Nationalism.

    He took an abstract model and wove a fantasy world around it. The Northwest Republic is Star Wars or Star Trek for White Nationalists. It is no more real than the United Federation of Planets.

    (16) Harold plays good music – Well, I can’t win every argument. So let’s concede that point.

    Personally, I like that “Rising of the Moon” song – it’s catchy, but it is about Ireland, not the Pacific Northwest, as are most of the other tunes in Harold’s repertoire, which he uses as metaphors for revolutionary struggle … something twice removed from the original source.

    What do the American sub-nations really sound like? These songs well up from the roots of a people.

    This one is more Northwesty:


    This one is more California:


    This one is more Empty Corridor:

    This one is more Heartland:


    This one is more Dixie:


    This one is more Foundry:


    This one is more South Florida:

    You can listen to Skynyrd, Bruce Springsteen, and George Strait and really get the sense that they are capturing something essential about the people who live in those areas, their environment, and way of seeing the world.

    They tap into something that goes way beyond grievances and abstractions – hence, their enduring popularity and resonance with millions of ordinary White people.

    What is the White Nationalist equivalent of that? Jamming away with Irish metaphors about a proposition nation?

    Sorry, but that doesn’t bring the house down like George Strait in Kansas City. It is not even close to a substitute.

    (17) What’s YOUR solution – This suggests there is a solution. Maybe there isn’t one. White people will respond to their racial predicament in different ways.

    The vast majority of White people are unwilling to uproot themselves for ideological reasons. They are even less willing to throw away their lives for an ideology. I can tell you that much.

    “White Zionists,” racialists who vote with their feet, are a minority of White Nationalists. Personally, I think the people who share that mindset should move to Empty Corridor and try to imitate the Mormons or Amish.

    Maybe they could have an impact on the state level in a place like Wyoming or Montana. Alternatively, they could stay put where they are and think more about what makes their corner of America distinct.

    Posted on April 17, 2011 by Hunter Wallace



    The quality of people I am reaching is much higher than I ever did with a forum.
    I'm now at the top of the racialist intellectual community in the United States.
    I was a nobody when I ran The Phora.


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    Ward Kendall is offline Smarter than D-g, Dumber than Dirt Junior Member Ward Kendall is on a distinguished road
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    Default Helping Euro-Americans Reclaim Their Land And National Destiny

    Helping Euro-Americans Reclaim Their Land And National Destiny



    http://whitenationalist.org/forum/sh...ted=1#post3718
    http://www.counter-currents.com/2011.../#comment-7295


    I enjoyed reading Harold’s Northwest Quartet series. It certainly portrays a gritty scenario of modern-day revolution in America.

    Nonetheless, I believe that any such objective to wrest control of this country from our multiculturalist captors must go beyond fiction (I write books too) and aggressively penetrate the mainstream culture of American life. By this, I assert that any successful WN victory must first begin by establishing real-world infrastructures where whites can gather, communicate, and initiate – and do so as openly as the SPLC or a McDonald’s does now. And it must be willing to do so even under the threat of constant physical violence, moral outrage, and legal intimidation.

    No, the National Alliance will not do this. Rallies, yes. But – beyond that – they simply remain too sequestered and too mysterious to be of any lasting effectiveness or appeal to the general white American public. Nor will the gentlemen’s clubs that we all know and love, such as the Council of Conservative Citizens, American Renaissance, V-Dare, et al, – or any of these other upscale WN suit-and-tie luncheon warriors. Talk, yes. Promulgate great ideas, sure. Sign books, why not! But actually save us?

    Well – no.

    And finally, neither can the Boys from Brazil (NSM, Bill White, Alex Linder, Matt Hale, etc) make a lick of headway. “Rounder” might, if we turned him loose in an M1-A1 battle tank. But fire just one TOW missile up his armored butt and his little white revolution would be all she wrote.

    So, what’s the answer, then?

    Well, who can say without some sliver of doubt? I certainly can’t. Then again, I do believe this: we are not ready for armed conflict.

    Instead, I wish to propose some of the concepts, ideas, and strategies that I formulated some years ago, under the acronym of HEARTLAND. For those of you who are unaware, it stands for: Helping Euro-Americans Reclaim Their Land And National Destiny.

    HEARTLAND is, at least in some ways, born of the same flesh and blood as the Northwest Imperative. It differs, however, in that it does not require a mass Exodus (tip of the hat there to Leon Uris) to one region of the country. Instead, it seeks to build a unified white nationalist network of recruitment /social centers across the states. (“Yay, even unto the wicked lands of blackest America shall the white man go!” Leviticus 14:88) With hard work and the courage of our beliefs (and money!) this kind of project can be accomplished.

    Finally, I wish not to start a “war” here. I simply understand what Harold understands – that the time for action (some sort of action!) has come – nay, is long overdue – and the election of America’s first black president is the surest sign that the End Times for Whitey draws near. Knowing that to be the case, I would be glad to work with Harold and others, but before any headway can be made, we must first have a transparently-clear plan of action, and it must not be burdened by the failed iconography and symbols of the past.

    So, whether it’s the Northwest Imperative or the concepts I outlined in HEARTLAND – or something else for that matter, no decision on the best road to take can be made – right here. Instead, we need to organize some sort of WN Summit – some WN equivalent of the infamous Bilderberg group, comprised of the very best WN minds we have.

    PS: Read an excerpt of “Hold Back This Day” by clicking my post-link


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